Ok so, I am gonna do this in English because, well, I don't know russian, I have been following and loving this mod for a long time, and I would like to give my opinion without turning everything into a mess by using a translator. I warn you that this will kind of be a text wall, so please refer to the tl
r section at the end if you have a life.
I am going to speak mostly about Nightmare with New SNK, as it is the setting I have played the most in NB.
First of all, I would like to address the LP issue. I have read several comments in this topic highlighting the fact that this mode is too easy, and that the LP amount should be reduced back to how it was in AB, that is 3/2/1. This suggestion would absolutely obliterate any kind of mage build, making them almost unplayable in this mode. Such reduction would mean that at level 15, instead of having 70 LP, you would be left with 40. After learning circle 1 (10), circle 2 (15) and mana regen (12), you would be left with 3LP, which is not even enough to learn a basic circle 1 spell. Good luck with that. Yes, it might be possible to continue, but you would spend the majority of the time under equipped for everything, and you would have to cheese basically everything in order to continue, which is hardly a symptom of good gameplay.
Early game for mage in New SNK is already hard / frustrating enough (yes, I believe that early game is easier for mage without SNK), please don't kill them outright. It was already bad enough a couple of months ago with 2LP per level (also, please do not make circles to be automatically learned in this mode, it does not make sense lore-wise).
In the late game, considering how SNK is currently balanced, mages end up with basically the same stats as they would back in AB with Old SNK (perhaps a little less), which I believe is fine.
Fighter classes, on the other hand are, in my opinion, a little overtuned in new SNK. I think the reason for this is quite simple: compared to mages, they can spread their damage points more. While mages generally only need mana and health, fighter guilds allocate points in at least 4 different stats: str/dex, stamina, health, weapon proficiency. This allows them to get a lot more stats overall for basically "free", since the more you spread the points, the lower their damage-points cost remains. As an example, I remember calculating that, for basically the same amount of damage, you could get either 320 str or 250 str AND 250 dex (320 stats vs 500).
Given the fact that they can spread, and the fact that they have less stuff overall to learn (mages have to spend LP to get their runes), this results in fighter classes having a lot of spare LP later on in the game, on top of an already quite high pool of stats from damage points.
A possible solution to this would be to increase the SNK cost for weapon abilities, or even remove them outright from the interface, so that fighters are forced to spend more LP to wield their weapons, much like mage classes.
Another suggestion I have read involves removing, or limiting even more, scrolls like fire rain. This, again, boils down to a mage vs fighter debate. As a fighter, I can get either get the steel spear or the light halberd and faceroll through everything with running attacks, but for mage the situation is bad enough. Having to fight 1000+LP NPCs with a rapier and a torch is already annoying enough.
People also suggested limiting the amount of buffs, such as less tablets, less effective potions and so on. I have always been a believer of balancing the other way: instead of taking away from the player, make the lategame more challenging with stronger mobs and bosses. After all, we are supposed to be the Nameless hero: it would kind of suck to have less stats than the guard in front of the Khorinis gate right before setting out for an epic journey to Irdorath, wouldn't it?
From a balancing stand point, I believe that good balance is achieved when you have the ability to fully flesh out your character by the time you face the first serious bosses (e.g. dragons, lost brother, etc). By fully fleshed out I mean that I can cast circle 6 spells as a mage (ofc if I didn't fuck up my build), or I can wield to mastery my weapons. After that point, it would be about scaling your fully fleshed out build to be ready for the increasingly tough challenges ahead. That is why playing as a mage sucked so much in Vanilla or original Returning 2.0: you have fun with your nukes for 5 minutes straight before reading the credits. Limiting the LP amount would go against this point.
As for early game, I believe it to be a little bit...unforgiving. By that I mean that the percieved difficulty is artificial: you are constantly pinned against things that one shot you, and that you have to either cheese, or nuke with a scroll, or hit 54 times hoping to burn them with your torch (fuck you Raoul). Perhaps it is not 54 hits if you dive immediately into str or dex, but for mages this is the definition of annoyance, especially if you have PTSD like me and you want to complete all the guildless quests before joining your magic faction.
When I defeated Im'Arah for the first time I felt like a god, when I defeated Sentenza for the first time with a rusty rapier I had to take painkillers for my headache
.
I was very excited that morning when I read that you could start with 5/5/5/50 stats (yay I can use my tree branch and my fire arrow at the beginning, instead of dying to a pup because its hitbox is fucked and I cannot avoid it with my fists), but for some ungodly reason it was removed half a day later. A big plus for the overall mod would consist in simplifying the early game to a level where you could at least leave Xardas' tower without attempting to fist fight the same scavenger 69 times hoping that one of those times it staggers everytime, whilst making the endgame more challenging. Again, not impossible, just annoying.
An option for shuffling stuff in the world would be nice, but I would add it as an extra option when selecting the difficulty.
The option of improving armor and weapons with stones and hunting trophies is also nice: it makes hunting relevant again, and is a nice addition for anal min maxers like me, so please keep it. I do not understand people that want to remove it from Nightmare no matter what. It is optional, if you do not want it, do not check that box.
Welp, I guess my stream of consciousness ends here. Here's the recap:
- LP amount in Nightmare-new SNK is fine for mages, overtuned for fighters as you get more stats since you spread them more. Balance fighters without nerfing mages in the process.
- Please do not remove consumables, they are scarce as it is, and make early game not suicide-inducing for mage classes.
- Please do not limit permanent boosts even more. You are supposed to become an epic hero. Increase lategame difficulty instead.
- Make early game a little bit more reasonable, introduce some kind of smoother difficulty curve. Allow me to kill something in the beginning without going mad and mastering the beginner animation for a week.
- If you want item shuffling, please make it optional
- Keep weapon / armor improvement. It is a nice, optional addition.
r section at the end if you have a life.I am going to speak mostly about Nightmare with New SNK, as it is the setting I have played the most in NB.
First of all, I would like to address the LP issue. I have read several comments in this topic highlighting the fact that this mode is too easy, and that the LP amount should be reduced back to how it was in AB, that is 3/2/1. This suggestion would absolutely obliterate any kind of mage build, making them almost unplayable in this mode. Such reduction would mean that at level 15, instead of having 70 LP, you would be left with 40. After learning circle 1 (10), circle 2 (15) and mana regen (12), you would be left with 3LP, which is not even enough to learn a basic circle 1 spell. Good luck with that. Yes, it might be possible to continue, but you would spend the majority of the time under equipped for everything, and you would have to cheese basically everything in order to continue, which is hardly a symptom of good gameplay.
Early game for mage in New SNK is already hard / frustrating enough (yes, I believe that early game is easier for mage without SNK), please don't kill them outright. It was already bad enough a couple of months ago with 2LP per level (also, please do not make circles to be automatically learned in this mode, it does not make sense lore-wise).
In the late game, considering how SNK is currently balanced, mages end up with basically the same stats as they would back in AB with Old SNK (perhaps a little less), which I believe is fine.
Fighter classes, on the other hand are, in my opinion, a little overtuned in new SNK. I think the reason for this is quite simple: compared to mages, they can spread their damage points more. While mages generally only need mana and health, fighter guilds allocate points in at least 4 different stats: str/dex, stamina, health, weapon proficiency. This allows them to get a lot more stats overall for basically "free", since the more you spread the points, the lower their damage-points cost remains. As an example, I remember calculating that, for basically the same amount of damage, you could get either 320 str or 250 str AND 250 dex (320 stats vs 500).
Given the fact that they can spread, and the fact that they have less stuff overall to learn (mages have to spend LP to get their runes), this results in fighter classes having a lot of spare LP later on in the game, on top of an already quite high pool of stats from damage points.
A possible solution to this would be to increase the SNK cost for weapon abilities, or even remove them outright from the interface, so that fighters are forced to spend more LP to wield their weapons, much like mage classes.
Another suggestion I have read involves removing, or limiting even more, scrolls like fire rain. This, again, boils down to a mage vs fighter debate. As a fighter, I can get either get the steel spear or the light halberd and faceroll through everything with running attacks, but for mage the situation is bad enough. Having to fight 1000+LP NPCs with a rapier and a torch is already annoying enough.
People also suggested limiting the amount of buffs, such as less tablets, less effective potions and so on. I have always been a believer of balancing the other way: instead of taking away from the player, make the lategame more challenging with stronger mobs and bosses. After all, we are supposed to be the Nameless hero: it would kind of suck to have less stats than the guard in front of the Khorinis gate right before setting out for an epic journey to Irdorath, wouldn't it?
From a balancing stand point, I believe that good balance is achieved when you have the ability to fully flesh out your character by the time you face the first serious bosses (e.g. dragons, lost brother, etc). By fully fleshed out I mean that I can cast circle 6 spells as a mage (ofc if I didn't fuck up my build), or I can wield to mastery my weapons. After that point, it would be about scaling your fully fleshed out build to be ready for the increasingly tough challenges ahead. That is why playing as a mage sucked so much in Vanilla or original Returning 2.0: you have fun with your nukes for 5 minutes straight before reading the credits. Limiting the LP amount would go against this point.
As for early game, I believe it to be a little bit...unforgiving. By that I mean that the percieved difficulty is artificial: you are constantly pinned against things that one shot you, and that you have to either cheese, or nuke with a scroll, or hit 54 times hoping to burn them with your torch (fuck you Raoul). Perhaps it is not 54 hits if you dive immediately into str or dex, but for mages this is the definition of annoyance, especially if you have PTSD like me and you want to complete all the guildless quests before joining your magic faction.
When I defeated Im'Arah for the first time I felt like a god, when I defeated Sentenza for the first time with a rusty rapier I had to take painkillers for my headache
.
I was very excited that morning when I read that you could start with 5/5/5/50 stats (yay I can use my tree branch and my fire arrow at the beginning, instead of dying to a pup because its hitbox is fucked and I cannot avoid it with my fists), but for some ungodly reason it was removed half a day later. A big plus for the overall mod would consist in simplifying the early game to a level where you could at least leave Xardas' tower without attempting to fist fight the same scavenger 69 times hoping that one of those times it staggers everytime, whilst making the endgame more challenging. Again, not impossible, just annoying.
An option for shuffling stuff in the world would be nice, but I would add it as an extra option when selecting the difficulty.
The option of improving armor and weapons with stones and hunting trophies is also nice: it makes hunting relevant again, and is a nice addition for anal min maxers like me, so please keep it. I do not understand people that want to remove it from Nightmare no matter what. It is optional, if you do not want it, do not check that box.
Welp, I guess my stream of consciousness ends here. Here's the recap:
- LP amount in Nightmare-new SNK is fine for mages, overtuned for fighters as you get more stats since you spread them more. Balance fighters without nerfing mages in the process.
- Please do not remove consumables, they are scarce as it is, and make early game not suicide-inducing for mage classes.
- Please do not limit permanent boosts even more. You are supposed to become an epic hero. Increase lategame difficulty instead.
- Make early game a little bit more reasonable, introduce some kind of smoother difficulty curve. Allow me to kill something in the beginning without going mad and mastering the beginner animation for a week.
- If you want item shuffling, please make it optional
- Keep weapon / armor improvement. It is a nice, optional addition.
