Готика 2: Реновация Обсуждение (после релиза)

[𝒮𝓎𝓁𝒶𝓇]

Та не, за то время, пока я балансил мод, любая студия выпустит пяток игр, так что никуда меня не взяли бы)

Хорошие моды быстро не делаются, тем более в одного)
Как писал Тразеге:

Работа над модификациями Возвращение 1 и 2 заняла порядка 8 лет (каждая), а создание модификации Новый баланс (с учетом использования уже всех готовых ресурсов Возвращения) до финальной версии заняло порядка 7 лет.
Возвращение Хереса - 13 лет
Легенда Ахсуна - более 10 лет
Одиссея - порядка 7+ лет
Ностальгия - 6 лет
Темная Сага - 6 лет
Архолос - (студия, в составе которой команда из 30 человек) был сделан в течении 5 лет.

Так что не согласен с тобой, но ладно

 

[DeceptiveGecko]

Ну нифига себе, не ожидал что Одиссею пират так быстро сделал (учитывая масштаб) и , если не ошибаюсь, у него тоже особо команды не было.
А хорошо отбалансить всегда долго, быстро такое не получится.
Разве что Архолос получается относительно быстро запилили (года за 3-4 насколько помню), но там и команда большая была

 

[Cavacecio]

hear me out.
you made this wonderful mod because you approached some fallacies about the gothic game; the wastefulness of the resources, the lack of meaning about salvaging items scattered around the world, the level curve of improving the main character, the spike of difficulty and making the choice about spending lp vital.
While playing as a mage paladin in my second run about 1 and half year ago i felt that even if i thought this mod can be considered the best mod on par with new balance, or even way better under many aspects, still something was, not really missing, but ALMOST reached about the weapon mechanics; the improvement.
At first i was angry because the paladin didn't have so much good options like the demon weapons from harad and the oriental wapons from bennet, so i i thougt "o well still i can reach the cursed staff of Hoshpack or if i go hardcore i can wield the shaman axe that deal stupid amouts of damages and this is even better" but after i reached 666 point of mana i felt that something was still lacking.
The way you addressed at the problem of improving the character was genius. The problem about gothic is that is that is kinda pointless doing a packrat run and improving the character just with lp and elixirs was boring, like it was boring just to let the game go on for better weapons, so you thought "why don't you let the player improving an exceptional faction or class weapon during the whole campaign?".
One of the problem still the game has is the usefulness about trophies, and you reached a perfect idea of using them through the belt smithing perk to make more money and more stats, but still the weapon mechanic and the trophies mechanic lack of meaning( claws, pelts, teeths, horns are still udeless). and i was hit by an idea.
I was angry i had to rush from ch 2 to ch 3 for the first run as a bandit and the second run as a mage paladin for improbing my gear and not waste time clearing the 3 maps, soooooooo.... instead of running and skipping chapters for better weapons, why don't you let the player improve since the very start of the game the wapons? but how? by spending the trophies!
So now the players cannot skip chapters anymore but they MUST slay monsters for improving weapons, like the Monster Hunter weappon mechanics.
No more need to rush, the more you clean the map, the more your weapon advance in strength. If you skip the chapter you will be overwhelmed by the enemies and your weapon would be garbage.
So let's say, the Nergal of Fire sword or the Ore blade have a total of 50 levels, to improve every level of the weapon you need;

lv 1 30 claws, 40 pelts, 40 teths
lv 2 almost the same and scrolls ( now the scroll perk is usefull for all classes, bandit need dark magic scrolls for katanas and demon wapons, paladin need fire scrolls for the innos weapon, warriors mercenary needs ore items and ore magicks scrolls from the water benders like in gothic 1, where you improve your magic blade into ore, so now with ores and water magick scrolls you can regain Uriziel by crafting this wonderfull legendary blade again)
lv 3 almost the same
lv 4 the same
lv 5 a lot of resources and boss trophies
and so on
and so on
lv 20 ( bandits needs paladins dead trophies like dead paladin npc heads, innos swords needs fire rain and top scrolls holy waters and such, ore blades needs a lot of ores and rainstorms ).
And so on until level 50 where the wapon you obtain since the start has his full potential that is by the way restored every level and gain the full name of the weapon like from the LV 1 cursed odd spear to a level 25 Ominous odd spear until Lv 50 The Bloody Nergal Aspis
so now EVERY single scrolls have a usefull damn use, every stupid dumb wolf teeth, every stupid hammer, every stupid moonwalker lurker claws, every dumb saw, clogs, bone, heads, herbs even more and so on, like every single stupid items.

Every now and then you can still throw around the map a stronger weapon that cannot be improved like the 2 handed huge wooden club, a huge spear, a dragon blade a goblin ass whoper club, a legendary molerat roasted bone, a magic staff and such so you can still have a different approach in difficult situations like dealing with high armored undead for gaining their super rare trophies, shadow beasts for their horns, trolls and high dangerous beasts that needs to be slayed in order to level up the your faction weapon or it will be stuck to let's say level 18 in chapter one.
By doig so now there is no problem in skipping chapters to improve weapons and the player is forced even more in seaching around every corner new monsters to improve their weapon while trying to save khorinis citizens ass from the unavoidable terrible destiny is coming.

COME ON NOW TELL ME THIS IS NOT THE BEST IDEA YOU HAVE NOT HEARD BRO
( my countless years in playing jrpg and rpgs have their meaning coff coff)

 

[Cavacecio]

i can even go in further details
lv 1 to 9
pelts, teeths, claws and scrolls( fireblade needs fire scrolls, demon weapons and oriental weapons dark scrolls, mercenary ore blades ice scrolls)
lv 10 Innos Fireblade same as above with firerain, lv 10 demon weapon same as above with dark whisper, Urizel oresword same as above and rainstorm
lv 11 to 20
pelts, teeths, claws, scrolls mantis heads
lv 20 to 25
samve as above plus snappers horns
lv 20 to 30 Innos fireblades, demon weapons, urizel blades same as above plus more rare trophies plus undead trophies or dead npc trophies such paladin heads or bandit heads
lv 25 unlocking lv 1 special ability and strengtening special damage such flat magic damage, flat fire damage, flat pure damage plus weapon skill: Anubis head
lv 30 to 35 pelts, teeth, claws and dragon snapper horns and for innos fireblads fire golem hearts, for urizel ice golem hearts, for demon weapons and oriental swords demon hearts
lv 35 unlocking 2 level skills and strengthening second damage: a lot of scavenged boss monsters trophies in the valley
lv 35 to 40 the trophies from undead crypt special dungeon
and so on and so on
Every 10 level the wapon change its name
i do think that the ore blade second effect must be the frozen effect but i would still leave the icewind axe and the long 2 handed sword in khorinis the second effect ice status for the other class.
i would even rob from the new balance a weapon, the moonlight sword that can be improved and used by all the classes that deal a nice amount of damages to undead UNTIL the main class weapon can completely bypass his attack power, something secret to be placed in ch 2 that can help the player

 

[WoOliN]

@Cavacecio, в этой идее много хорошего, кроме... кроме ее реализации))

Такое улучшение будет очень сложно рассчитать. И тем более, что речь идет не об одном виде оружия, а о нескольких. Тестирование, реализация и балансировка подобной схемы займет не менее полугода.

Другая проблема - а будет ли это интересно игрокам? Предложенная тобой схема предполагает просто колоссальный объем гринда. Гринд в оффлайн-играх плохо воспринимается игроками. В Реновации, кстати, гринда довольно много.

 

[Cavacecio]

i just proposed my idea to you because i'm following your own conception about a new way to see gothic 2 with a new solid economy style.
i now damn well that grinding it's boring but i thought it was a good idea to propose my intuition to you because you made renovation a grinding experience since exp is scarce and you even put a minigame in ch 2 for clearing the map from orcs and you reward the player giving jetons to be exchanged for elixirs.
You really made a wonderfull mod.

 

[Cavacecio]

i can even go in further details
lv 1 to 9
pelts, teeths, claws and scrolls( fireblade needs fire scrolls, demon weapons and oriental weapons dark scrolls, mercenary ore blades ice scrolls)
lv 10 Innos Fireblade same as above with firerain, lv 10 demon weapon same as above with dark whisper, Urizel oresword same as above and rainstorm
lv 11 to 20
pelts, teeths, claws, scrolls mantis heads
lv 20 to 25
samve as above plus snappers horns
lv 20 to 30 Innos fireblades, demon weapons, urizel blades same as above plus more rare trophies plus undead trophies or dead npc trophies such paladin heads or bandit heads
lv 25 unlocking lv 1 special ability and strengtening special damage such flat magic damage, flat fire damage, flat pure damage plus weapon skill: Anubis head
lv 30 to 35 pelts, teeth, claws and dragon snapper horns and for innos fireblads fire golem hearts, for urizel ice golem hearts, for demon weapons and oriental swords demon hearts
lv 35 unlocking 2 level skills and strengthening second damage: a lot of scavenged boss monsters trophies in the valley
lv 35 to 40 the trophies from undead crypt special dungeon
and so on and so on
Every 10 level the wapon change its name
i do think that the ore blade second effect must be the frozen effect but i would still leave the icewind axe and the long 2 handed sword in khorinis the second effect ice status for the other class.
i would even rob from the new balance a weapon, the moonlight sword that can be improved and used by all the classes that deal a nice amount of damages to undead UNTIL the main class weapon can completely bypass his attack power, something secret to be placed in ch 2 that can help the player

it can be done also that every 10 level, with a boss trophy plus an hard to craft scroll plus hidden ores or even exp gems or wathever you feel must be used by your own way to upgrade the weapon mechanic curve the player can improve the flat magic, fire, or pure damage.
we all know you are like the nameless " the one man army " so take you time if you think my intuition would fit in your own Renovation conception.

 

[WoOliN]

Думаю, тут нужно снижать количество уровней улучшения с 50 где-то до 5.
И большую часть ингредиентов лучше делать уникальными (уникальные ингредиенты добавлять боссам и в квесты)
или крафтовыми (например, из магистерия и сердец каменного, огненного, ледяного и болотного големов делать некий магический драгоценный камень, который можно будет инкрустировать в рукоятку меча).
Так игрок будет вынужден исследовать большую часть локации, чтобы найти и убить нужных врагов. Но при этом не будет особого раздражения от этого - ведь добраться до 4 редких врагов, ради 4-х сердец - это не тоже самое, что убить 200-300 обычных врагов, ради 500 зубов)
Ну и не будет ситуаций, когда игрок потратил несколько свитков, а позже узнал, что они нужны для улучшения оружия.

 

[Cavacecio]

Думаю, тут нужно снижать количество уровней улучшения с 50 где-то до 5.
И большую часть ингредиентов лучше делать уникальными (уникальные ингредиенты добавлять боссам и в квесты)
или крафтовыми (например, из магистерия и сердец каменного, огненного, ледяного и болотного големов делать некий магический драгоценный камень, который можно будет инкрустировать в рукоятку меча).
Так игрок будет вынужден исследовать большую часть локации, чтобы найти и убить нужных врагов. Но при этом не будет особого раздражения от этого - ведь добраться до 4 редких врагов, ради 4-х сердец - это не тоже самое, что убить 200-300 обычных врагов, ради 500 зубов)
Ну и не будет ситуаций, когда игрок потратил несколько свитков, а позже узнал, что они нужны для улучшения оружия.

yeah why not it's easier and a solid good idea, so if i have understood correctly you can improve the flat magick, fire and pure damage with crafting gems from hearts and rare trophies? i think it's a wonderfull idea.
Just one thing, how still can you make a use for useless trophies like claws and such if you don't follow the hunter job or you don't learn how to make arrows and bolts? how to make a use for the scroll perk for other classes? i thought about combining these 2 problem in a new source of usefullness.
How would you pose to resolve this matter.

 

[WoOliN]

@Cavacecio, пока я больше думаю, как бы заработать денег в реальной жизни
А так - когда-то я займусь и этой проблемой в модификации, но пока что ни на что глобальное у меня нет свободного времени)